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FAE 024: Change Management For Entrepreneurs And Adult Learning With Carolyn Kiel

FAE 024: Change Management for Entrepreneurs and Adult Learning with Carolyn Kiel

Paul talks with Carolyn Kiel about change management for freelancers and entrepreneurs, adult learning and specific challenges that female entrepreneurs face.

Here is the full transcript:

Paul 00:00
Change Management for entrepreneurs and adult learning with Carolyn Kiel. Hi there. I’m Paul Urwin and welcome to the freelancers and entrepreneurs Podcast, where freelancing meets entrepreneurship and business. We discussed clients sales, marketing, outsourcing, mindset, and much, much more. Find out more at Hey there, Paul here and welcome to Episode 24 of the freelancers and entrepreneurs podcast. I hope you’re having an amazing week so far successful week, that and I hope you’re doing well with the confronting some of the many challenges that I know we face as freelancers and entrepreneurs on a daily basis. Really, it’s not easy. It’s not easy to succeed, but I’m sure if you stick at it, you will get to where you’re meant to get to. So Best of luck with that. In fact, if you would like to help Helping Hand along the way, just to remind you that our brand new coaching program is now open. And we are by way, of course, I mean, myself and Andrew Morris are really helping people to take their their freelancing operation or their business to the next level and it works really well. I really enjoy working with Andrew on the coaching side, I tend to focus a little bit more on some of the practical tools, helping people really get their websites and their sales funnels and their, their marketing strategies, right. And Andrew really works with people to get their mindset, right, make sure that they have the right approach mentally and remove some of those limiting beliefs that might be holding you back. So it’s really that combination of myself and Andrew that works really, really well and can definitely help you take your business to the next level. So if you find that of interest, and check out our website, www dot freelancers and entrepreneurs calm and hit on the little coaching tab at the top to set up your free, completely free 15 minute consultation and then we’ll take it from there. So I look forward to hearing from you on that front for now. Now let’s turn our attention to today’s interview which is with Carolyn keel, fantastic guest she shares so much amazing information in such a short space of time we talked about change management, in particular how that affects freelancers and entrepreneurs. We talk about female entrepreneurs, corporate training, adult learning, and quite a few other things. So So yeah, stay tuned. It’s coming up in about one second. Here we go. Again, I’m here today with Carolyn keel. Carolyn is a very experienced learning and development leader specializing in change management, talent, management and culture. She’s also the host and producer of the beyond six seconds public Cast, which features extraordinary stories from everyday people who are starting their own businesses, giving back to their communities and working with exciting new technologies to advance our world. Carolyn, welcome to the show.

Carolyn 03:14
Thank you. Thank you, Paul. I’m very happy to be here today.

Paul 03:17
Well, I’m really excited to talk to you, Carolyn, I’ve got lots of lots of great value that you can share with us. You’re very experienced in all of these areas, of course in change management and corporate training, and so on. But before we get into a couple of those topics, let’s just find out a little bit more about you. So if you could tell us a little bit about your story, how you got to where you all today, and then we’ll start to delve into some of those topics.

Carolyn 03:39
Sure. Sounds good. So let’s see. So I am based in the United States in the state of New Jersey. I grew up nearby in in Westchester County, New York, so I’m still relatively close to where I grew up. Um, my story is that I started out when I was thinking about my career. where I wanted to go with it. And I was in college, I became very interested in studying the field of psychology. So I decided to pick my bachelor’s degree, concentration, my major as a psychology major. And when I was getting close to graduation, I realized that I had some choices I had to make. I was noticing that, you know, if I wanted to pursue a career in like more clinical psychology as a psychologist, psychiatrist or social worker, I couldn’t really do that with only a bachelor’s degree I had to do on go on and do some continuing education. Or I could decide to take some time off and go into the workplace and decide what I really wanted to do with my life, what kind of work I like doing. And I also remember being very interested in the field of career counseling and career development. So I always interest from very early on in how people discover and develop their own talents and skills and interests. And I was very interested in that area which relates a little just psychology and human behavior and how humans think. But at the same time, I recognized that I couldn’t really follow that if I didn’t have any actual work experience. So I decided to postpone postpone grad school for a little bit. I went into the working world just, you know, had a couple of different short jobs and then wound up starting at MasterCard, where I spent 13 years in a variety of different roles kind of worked my way up from starting as an assistant within the business slash, soon to become Change Management Department, which was my first experience to the concept of change management. It shifted to other sort of organizational development type of roles. So after the Change Management Group, I helped establish an enterprise risk management team working with as part of the finance team to help establish a sort of consistent discipline of risk management across the company right before its IPO, in the middle of the 2000s. Then afterwards, I did some work in IT governance for a couple of years at MasterCard, then I add through that whole experience and the whole process of change management, there’s a lot of steps like establishing processes and communications and roles and responsibilities and influencing. But the part that I really started to gravitate towards was the employee training and communications aspect, because anytime you’re establishing a change, there is communications and training that go along with it. And I was very interested in how that gets developed. And I got some experience in that as well. And I decided, you know, maybe about six or seven years ago that I really wanted to shift my career more towards employee training and development. So I wound up leaving MasterCard and worked at a couple of different companies in a pure Learning and Development Manager type of role. So a program manager role So I was at BMW for a year working on training programs for their, their, their corporate employees in the North American region, then went to a company called ITT Corporation where I got to project manage a global project and initiative around corporate culture shaping, which was really fascinating. And my first exposure to really how do we help change the culture of a company? And what’s involved with that. And from there, I know now I’ve been at, at Verizon for about two and a half years, again, doing more pure play, training, program development, and my focus is around digital marketing or digital operations and technology, I should say. So I work with a team in the business who focuses on those topics and I help provide and fine training for them that fits their specific needs. So that’s a bit of my career trajectory. How fast falls in is that you know, I’ve always been a creative person. I was amazing. Mission all throughout my schooling in college, I was a singer even after college a little bit, I sang in New York City with a small acapella group. So I always had that creative spirit and interest. And you know, as things got busier, and I stopped singing for a little while, I wanted another creative venture that I could lead. So, you know, from this thing, I knew a little bit about audio editing and audio production. So I thought that could translate well to podcasting, which I had just discovered, maybe only maybe like, like, two three years ago. So okay. Yeah, I talked people, I guess I’m a little late in the game. But that’s when it started to get on my radar. I’m like, Oh, this is really interesting. So I decided to try out podcasting. And I thought in terms of developing my own skills, I could get, you know, really developed my ability to interview other people. I wanted to practice that and see how I could ask good questions and tell people tell really interesting stories that my listeners could learn from. So I just started out with my podcast beyond six seconds that launched in January of 2018. started out by interviewing my friends to you know, kind of get the friendly audience lenses, you know a lot of us do, I’m sure. And then it just really started to take off from there. I started getting referrals for guests from my listeners, other people reaching out to me who wanted to be on the show. And now I think I’m, I think, as of this recording, I believe Episode 70 is going to come out tonight, it comes out on Monday nights. So I’ve already done about 70 episodes, and I’ve learned so much in the show has really grown since then. And you know, I just really love it. It’s been a great way to meet people and network and really provide value certainly for my guests from the back from them. And also from my my listener base, which continues to grow.

Paul 09:43
Fantastic, fantastic stuff. We’ve been very, very busy. Carolyn certainly say that. So yeah, I think just to sort of mention the mentioned the podcast, I think it’s a really good example of a new technology of how one can become familiar with that new Technology over time and get into something new there are, you know, not just in podcasting, but there are a whole host of opportunities out there that we can consider nowadays and podcast. Paul, we of course, I love podcasting. I’ve, I’ve hosted, you know, a number of different podcasts. And I think it’s, I think it’s a really, really brilliant medium. So, yeah, well, Congratulations, congratulations on your beyond six seconds show fantastic stuff. Thank you. Okay, Carolyn, well, I I’m obviously coming at this whole topic from the point of view of freelancers and entrepreneurs. And I’d really just like to delve into a couple of topics that we’ve mentioned. So the first one is change management. And I wonder, I’m just wondering, I know you work a lot with with corporations. I’m just wondering if we can apply any of the things that come up in change management to the transition that that many of us have gone through, or are going through, which is that transition from employee from nine to five if you’d like to starting out on our own whether that’s as a freelancer or as As an entrepreneur, so can you perhaps just talk about some of the general things that come up in change management, perhaps in a corporate setting? And then we can maybe see if we can apply those to, to freelancers and entrepreneurs. Does that make sense at all that question?

Carolyn 11:13
It does. Yeah, it’s an interesting question. And one I haven’t thought about to this point. So let’s say I’ll can then I can kind of talk through some of the some of the major concepts and things that I’ve encountered in my change management projects, and I’m sure they will tie to into freelancers and entrepreneurs as they go to make change. So one thing that I tend to look at when we’re looking across a major organizational change is, you know, the sort of common pyramid of people processes and technology. So I think a lot of times with corporate changes, you know, this is a big generalization, obviously, but a lot of times it’s a real focus on getting a new process out, or getting a new technology like we’re launching a new software to, I don’t know if it’s a new learning management system, for example, or A new financial tracking system, that the technology piece or a process piece in terms of we’re changing the way that we do X, Y, or Z process across the company. And I think that those those pieces are in some ways easier than the third piece the people piece. Because and this is, I guess, where my psychology background and interests come in. For people, you know, as much as we, as much as we read about, you know, loving change, and embracing change, and change is the way to go. And the world is changing even faster and faster. And those are all true things. But in reality, you know, humanity is, in general does not really like rapid change later, there are very few people who really love it. And in that in those cases, you know, sometimes we like change if we’re in control of it, or we feel like we’re in control of it, but nobody likes change, just sort of happening to them or happening at that. So, I think that that’s a big challenge. And obviously freelancers and entrepreneurs are, they’re running right into that change. And you know, that’s always something thing that I’ve admired so much about people who leave long established careers to go out on their own. It’s just such a different thing to embrace. And, you know, really I do appreciate that mindset. But even then, you know, as much as you enjoy and are excited about change, it can still be frightening. So it’s something to keep in mind, at least in the corporate world is that even, even if you think that the straight if you’re sort of working on the change and orchestrating it, you’re on that team that’s picking the software or creating the and you think everything makes sense. There are just so many different ramifications that people will kind of think about in their heads. So something to keep in mind as someone leading a change is, you know, who understanding who’s going to be impacted the most you have key stakeholders who, as a result of your process change will have to do their jobs differently, or maybe won’t be able to get the same data or information that they were able to get before or there will be it will take a little time. Longer as we go up the learning curve and get used to a new system, like how does it impact your key players? And I would, in that case, I encourage any change manager to bring those identified those people and bring them in early to the change so that you’re not just sort of like landing on them at the last minute. They really shouldn’t boom, sorry, takes up so you get so you get people involved in what’s going on and try and get them to buy into the process if you like.

Exactly. And, you know, it’s it’s getting that buy in, it’s just keeping people informed and aware. And in this case, you almost you almost can’t over communicate. I know I’ve you know, I’ve seen situations I’ve even been in a situation or two where, you know, we really think that we’ve communicated so much and it’s so clear. And then we’ll get to a major checkpoint or a milestone and then someone will say, Wait, wait, what, what are we doing? What is this? I didn’t know this was happening, because obviously, people have other things on their mind. So you have to kind of keep this change in front of them to

Paul 14:56
Absolutely absolutely great stuff. Well, it makes me think of something that many freelancers entrepreneurs go through when they go from full time employment to, let’s say, working from home, well, that’s a massive change because now this person is working from home and they’re their partner, you know, they have a partner in and might be at home as well or might be at work. So that’s something that’s sort of, you know, a working environment change that, that sounds like it might not be that important to talk about, but can have a huge effect on on people sort of life and family and that kind of stuff. And I think as, as perhaps one of the things that we don’t think about when we’re thinking about change management as applied to, to freelancers, let’s say so, you know, brings up all these kind of interesting questions for me, in terms of how it affects people and the other one that that is massive change for freelancers and entrepreneurs, of course is that is the income situation. And again, whether you’re whether you You’re on your own or whether you’re with a partner, or part of a family, or whatever your living situation is it’s gonna have an effect because you, you’re going from a situation where many people losses and entrepreneurs have good good income before they set out on on their own. And then all of a sudden they’re giving up that income, and they’ve now got to go out and get clients and, and those clients have got to pay the bill. So that’s a pretty significant change.

Carolyn 16:14
Yeah, that changing consistency, you don’t have the consistent cash flow coming in anymore.

Paul 16:19
Absolutely. I mean, just in general, what are some of the recommendations that you give for people to deal with change, just in general, not necessarily a specific situation, but what how should people approach a situation where they know they’re going to go through a change, they believe that they’re and accept that they’re going to do it because it’s something that they believe in and they believe is going to give them better results or a better situation in the long run? So maybe, let’s, let’s assume that but but obviously, going through the change itself is going to be hard. So what recommendations would you give to people just in general?

Carolyn 16:53
Let’s see. I think the first thing is to really kind of keep a curious mindset and ask Just sort of think in the frame of asking questions versus just trying to find absolute certainty and things. So especially if a change, you’re going into a change that is very unstructured and unsure. And I think most changes are most people really try to structure around things right away. But sometimes you’re making a change. And you haven’t figured it all out yet. Because you know, you can’t really wait until you figured everything out, because then you’re probably too late and you have to change everything and figure out other things. So I think just being open to the idea that you’re not gonna know how to do everything immediately, or you’re not going to go know all the answers to everything right away for change. And just to continually be curious about like, and ask questions about, you know, as you’re going through things about, how could I do this differently? What is this change mean? You know, being aware of what’s of what’s happening, and really just trying to understand You know, instead of getting discouraged by things that might be going wrong, or might be knowledge gaps, just sort of asking, Well, how could I do this better? Or, you know, what’s really happening in this situation? How can I provide value to this person in a different way? Because I feel like as a freelancer and an entrepreneur, you have to be even more nimble and aware of your customers needs even more so than if you’re in a large corporation, where you may not even have a customer facing role. So, you know, while it’s always important, it becomes even more important as a freelancer or an entrepreneur. So I would say to not get discouraged, but kind of keep, you know, keep your your finger on the pulse of what’s going on day to day and ask questions about how you could do things better how you can serve your clients, even more what people like about you what kind of people respond to what you’re doing. That sort of a sort of a very general piece of advice. You know, in general with change, it’s always good. To be curious and say, Well, how can I help with this change? or How can I make things make things better and make things work in this new reality? That that’s, that’s prompt us?

Paul 19:09
Excellent advice. Carolyn, excellent advice. Sounds like having the right attitude and the right mindset. And it’s going to go a long way like it does in, in many other aspects of the life and business. Definitely. So another topic, another topic that I know that you’re an expert in is, is adult learning. And I just wanted to ask you, you know, how important do you feel it is, obviously you see this within a corporate environment, but again, I’m related to entrepreneurship and related to freelancing, we’re really all in the same boat in terms of learning, I think, to some degree, how important is it for people to to keep learning as they go through their careers?

Carolyn 19:49
Well, obviously, I’d say it’s very important. But you know, I obviously I’m, I’m maybe slightly biased because I am in the learning and development field. So I do place a strong importance on learning, but I think As an adult learning might look different than it then we think of when we think of learning and we think of when we were kids going to school and then maybe going to college or university or, you know, it’s that sort of superstructure learning. And while you know, and then sometimes as people go into the corporate world, that gets replicated as a training class, or elearning modules or sort of this very structured training, but ality that type of structured delivered training is only a very small percentage of what learning looks like for adults. In fact, you know, most of our learning is through either, you know, on the job experiencial learning where we’re literally learning by doing our jobs and seeing what works, seeing what doesn’t work, and also by just sort of more informal learning. So whether it’s, you know, job shadowing a colleague who you want to learn more about the types of work they do and what it’s really like during the day to day to even having conversations with colleagues in different roles, people at different companies who may be in a similar role than you. So as adult learning, I definitely find that learn, the whole concept of learning really expands as an adult. So you don’t, you don’t have to be going to a school or enrolled in a degree program or something to be learning. Again, I think that curious mindset really ties into that very well. Because if you’re always asking questions are always trying to think about, you know, how can I make my How can I do something more effectively in my job, or what’s the newest trend that I’m seeing on the horizon that maybe I should read up on or talk to some experts about so that I’m ready when it comes when it comes and starts impacting my job that I’ve had some thoughts and maybe some experiences about what that really looks like. So, you know, I think learn in different ways and those are just some of them.

Paul 21:53
You know, that’s that’s quite interesting because a lot of a lot of that sort of relates to the individuals personal approach or personal effort or dedication to learning and to seeking out their own advancement if you like, but, but we often talk about corporate training or what a company is doing in order to further the opportunities of their their employees. And I find that quite quite interesting because it, it seems to come up in certain different scenarios, one of them being where the company doesn’t really want to invest in the employees because it then simply believes that they’re going to sort of go off elsewhere with their with their new qualifications, and the employees might be a bit reluctant to sort of undertake training when it requires extra effort on their part and so on. So what would you say in your experience, Carolyn, what would you say that companies do wrong? What’s the biggest mistake that you’ve seen in terms of corporate training,

Carolyn 22:51
As well, I think I’ve been pretty fortunate to work for employers who really did place a value on training and would make training investments in the right places to support them. Employees growth because they recognize that they need employees who have the most up to date talent and the greatest skills in order to remain competitive as companies and they realize the value of that. But let’s see in terms of the biggest mistakes that I’ve I’ve seen, or I’ve heard other companies making. Well, I think it does tie back to that reluctance to see how, you know, the real value of training, although I wouldn’t necessarily blame it all on like the company’s overall because a big challenge of learning and development in general is that it’s not it’s, it can be a challenge to measure in terms of really knowing what the that it’s this learning class or this particular class or training program or or whatever it is, that this was the thing that had a direct impact on sales on Oh cost effectiveness on waste reduction on something. You know, the really skilled learning and development practitioners can do that. But it’s a con, you know, it’s a constant struggle. And it’s difficult. It’s. So I think a lot of companies say, Well, you know, we don’t really know if this working, because either they can’t figure out what the what their key performance indicators should be for it, or they just don’t have the data or don’t know how to pull the data to measure the impact. So I think that’s a lot of where a lot of the, maybe when I hear of lack of training or lack of investment in types of training, I think a lot of it comes from that. I haven’t fortunately run to the experience personally, so far, where people don’t want to train because they don’t want to let their companies go, although I’ve read quite a lot about that. But I think a lot of it is just the challenge of learning and development being seen as just a cost center and something that’s Yeah, important to do, because, you know, but it’s but you know, if you get into a hard time with, you know, an economic downturn or you know, where where budgets have to be cut. That’s, I think a lot of reasons why Learning and Development sometimes is one of those things, unfortunately, that gets cut down, because it’s hard to really tell us sometimes.

Paul 25:07
Yeah, you can’t relate it to a specific result. Sometimes I think that’s, I think you sort of hit the nail on the head there. I think that’s, I think that’s part of the problem. I mean, I’m quite interested also in new training, what I mean by new training, sort of, you know, online tools and, and things like that, because I think if you look at it, so traditional corporate learning things, like, let’s say, let’s take a topic like leadership, so leadership training is can be absolutely fantastic. And obviously, you can generate or help to create and develop leaders within a particular organization. And that can prove to be very valuable in the long term. But I’m also quite interested in in, like I said, learning a specific tool or learning a specific piece of software because I think that can really give you concrete results in the short term. I mean, I don’t know you obviously much more experienced than I’m in this but I don’t know how easy it is to say all so and so is now a much better leader. Whereas if you say, Oh, this person’s done a particular training, and they can now manage the software and process these orders and do this, that and the other, then it’s perhaps a little bit more concrete. Does that. Does that make sense at all?

Carolyn 26:17
Yeah. And the whole concept of leadership is so challenging because unlike, you know, figuring out how, what it looks like if you’re using software correctly, because there’s generally only one way or a narrow number of ways where there’s, you know, there’s a correct way and then there’s a not correct way to use use a particular software program but for leadership, and this is something that’s really been reinforced as I interview leaders and entrepreneurs and and people who have had leadership positions in corporations, that there really is no single picture of what a great leader looks like. So it’s not like Oh, if you just you know, show these 10 qualities, then you’re a good leader. Well, no, it depends on you know, the the type of company you’re in the type of culture you’re operating in the people that you’re working with so many other things and the types of situations you’re in may call for other, you know, other demonstrations and skills within leadership. So that in itself makes it hard because even before you get to the learning and the training, it’s like, well, what, what does that look like? So I would imagine that every company has its own, or should have its own definition of what they want their leaders to stand for, how they want us to behave, and how they want them to think and work with, with their teams. And yeah, and then so once you’ve got that, then you’re right, it is much more challenging to, to train or really reinforce people on leadership. And I think that can be you can do that through a variety of different learning types of resources. Whether it’s, you know, trait formal training programs are great, obviously. But it really has to be more than that. I think in that case, the reinforcement around learning is just as or even more important, so that once people walk out of a class or or close down that elearning module, that it doesn’t just disappear out of their head because that’s another challenge with training is that you’re doing within like, 48 hours like it’s almost gone. So that’s a big piece. Yeah,

Paul 28:12
I agree totally with that. It does seem to be a massive challenge, you know, and I’m sure it’s happened to me many times you walk out of a sort of less than and then that’s it, and then it’s just so it just sort of disappears, you know, so that’s right. That’s unfortunate. Okay, no, brilliant, fantastic stuff. Carolyn. Excellent stuff. Really, really good value. Thank you so, so much. We’re racing through quite a few topics here. And I wanted to ask you, I know we can’t go into massive detail, but I wanted to ask you something else, because I know you’ve, you’ve worked with a lot of a lot of female entrepreneurs over the years, you’ve interviewed some great people on your own beyond six seconds podcast. And I just wanted to talk a little bit couple of minutes about the specific challenges that female entrepreneurs face. You know, so when when they’re getting started and when they’re building their businesses. So what’s your what’s your take on that? What’s your experience in that? In that area Carolyn,

Carolyn 29:02
Let’s see, I’m trying to think I’ve interviewed such a diverse array of female leaders, I’m trying to think if there are like, you know, in a lot of ways, there are a lot of different challenges and it kind of depends on where you are in your career. If you’re just starting out, if you’re coming out of school and you’re becoming an entrepreneur, or if you’ve been in the corporate world for many years, and, and are making that switch. I think a lot of the challenge can be around even just sort of knowing where to start and finding the right resources and resources, including other people to, to network with and build relationships with. So, you know, I, I’ve talked to some people who, um, you know, have really shared with me that, you know, being an entrepreneur a lot of times can be very lonely, because Don’t you know, you don’t go to the office with all the co workers and you you kind of can find feel disconnected. And a lot of times you feel like you’re the only person who’s out there doing things. And I think that’s a challenge, particularly for a lot of women because I think as, as women socialize, we don’t. I mean, I’m hoping that this is changing now, but traditionally, you know, when we’re together with other women, we don’t necessarily make big asks for, you know, you know, hey, I’m really looking, you know, I’m struggling with this part of my business. You know, either Can you help me or can you refer me to resources that can help me, you know, organize or support my business as a virtual assistant or I get funding opportunities, whereas I feel like or I’ve heard, I mean, I haven’t been in these groups myself, but, you know, if a group of men are out, like, you know, golfing or they’re out socially, they’re more likely to ask for that type of sort of professional support or referral is just for you know, for whatever reason, just to you know how things have happened. That is easier. For them, but for women, it’s not it just hasn’t happened as much yet. And I think we’re getting better. But I think that contributes to the isolation and also the feeling. And I don’t know, maybe maybe male entrepreneurs feel this too, but definitely women entrepreneurs, I think a lot of times when they’re out on their own, they feel like they have to do everything themselves. Because I think a lot of times women are, you know, we we are still responsible for doing taking care of the house whether or not we work out outside of the home or not. Yeah, so. So we’re just sort of used to like, Oh, I have to do everything, of course I do. But as an entrepreneur, you can’t grow and scale. If you’re doing everything, you have to hire people, you have to delegate, which means you have to reach out and trust other people and in some ways, manage them and sort of make sure that you know, you’re sort of delegating those tasks that you’re not good at. You shouldn’t feel bad that you’re not good at everything because no one’s good at everything. That’s why you bring on a team and you delegate those tasks that you’re not good at or are not good uses of your time. So you can focus on you know, making sales bringing in business and and sharing the talents that you’re really good. With and I think sometimes women feel like we just are supposed to do everything. And if we can’t, like we failed somehow. But, you know, again, I’m hoping that that’s changing. But I think those are some of the challenges that that women entrepreneurs do face.

Paul 32:13
Brilliant. Wow, amazing answer, Carolyn, I really appreciate that. It’s really, that’s a really good, good insights that you’ve, you’ve given in such a short space of time. So really, really impressive stuff. Brilliant. Brilliant. Okay. Well, I think I just like to. Well, just just to add, just to add on that point, actually, I think from my experience, when you go out and ask for something, the results are have been, at least for me, surprisingly positive in the sense that many people out there are completely willing to help if you would only just ask, so I think, you know, your advice of, of getting out there and connecting with people in asking, asking the questions or asking for help. I think that can that can prove to be hugely positive. For people and as he said, as well reduce that feeling of isolation. So great stuff. Carolyn, thank you so much for everything that you have shared with us today. I just like to give you now a couple of minutes at the end, if you would like to talk about anything, anything else if you’d like to add anything, and then of course, to share all of your details, the website where we can find you and find details about your podcast, and then we’ll wrap it up.

Carolyn 33:26
Right, that sounds great. Well, thank you so much, Paul, for having me on your show. It was really great to have this conversation. And I love talking about all these different topics. And since we were just talking about, you know, making asks and how people are, are more than willing to help if you get, you know, if you ask them for things. So that’s one thing that I’m practicing now is a sort of entrepreneurial podcaster is really structuring my ask. So you know, I would encourage anyone you know, I would love it if anyone wants to come and check out my show. It’s at WWW dot beyond six and that’s the number six in the URL. It’s also available on all the major podcast platforms like Apple podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, I Heart Radio, Google podcasts, etc. I am always, you know, happy and looking for new listeners always happy to hear feedback. If you like it, you know, please leave a rating or review on Apple podcasts or whichever player that you’re listening to. If you are interested, if you really like the content and you’re interested in being a sponsor, I would certainly love to talk about that we definitely do have opportunities for people to sponsor, whether it’s one episode or multiple episodes, would love to talk about that because it’s a really great way to get your content in front of, you know, hundreds and thousands of people within my audience. And so yeah, those are just sort of the things that I’m looking for. And also I am available, I’m really trying to do more speaking opportunities. So if you are looking for One to provide some expertise on how to put together a podcast, how to get started, and how to do all of those different, you know, types of tasks that sometimes seem a little intimidating when you’re first starting out with podcasting, I would love to share my knowledge with that would love to come and and speak with your organization’s about it more. And, you know, overall those that’s really what I’m looking forward to I’m very excited about the growth of the podcast. You know, I get some more listeners tepa tuning in every month and very excited to have a lot of really great guests who have been on the show and two are continuing to be part of the lineup. And, you know, we’ve got, I’d say about, you know, a couple of hundred or you know, maybe even a couple thousand of listeners at this point every month. So it continues to grow from there. So, yeah, I’m just really grateful to share the show with with everyone in your audience. So thank you for having me on.

Paul 35:57
No, brilliant Carolyn Well, if if anyone wants to come on this show show and share as much value as you have done in half an hour then. Then Yeah, please, please get in touch with me because you’ve been absolutely fantastic guests. Carolyn, thank you so, so much. wish you every success with your podcast and everything else you’re up to. And yeah, thanks again.

Carolyn 36:18
Thank you.

Paul 36:19
Okay, all the best, Carolyn. Bye.

Carolyn 36:21
Hey, take care. Bye.

Paul 36:23
Well, I hope you enjoyed that amazing interview with Carolyn kiel. If you’d like to find out more about Carolyn, check out the links on our website in the show notes that’s www dot freelancers and entrepreneurs calm while you’re there. Of course you can also check out our free training completely free training session. All you need to do is sign up for that and also there is a opportunity for a free 15 minute coaching consultation just click on the coaching session, the coaching section rather at the top of the website. Also if you would like to be a guest on the podcast and Please just get in touch. There’s a contact form on the website. If there’s anything that you would like to me to include or someone that you would like me to interview or a topic you would like me to find out more about or to cover, then please get in touch. You can contact me, as I said, through the website, there’s a contact form on there, that’s probably the easiest way or you can come and join us in the Facebook group. There’s a link to that from the website as well. And you can ask any question or you can message me directly via Facebook. So thanks so much for tuning in. All the very best and until next time, bye bye

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